TiVo HD, CableCARD, and Tuning Adapter

[callmejer]

I'm new to this forum and hoping someone here can give me some guidance. I have Time Warner basic broadcast (the $12/mo pkg) and a TiVo HD. I had this set up for about two years. I was able to receive all the channels I was paying for, but I couldn't get program guide information for the HD versions of local stations. They would appear in my guide as 18-6, 18-10, etc., and they would just say "To Be Announced" instead of showing what was on. I have come to learn that these are called QAM channels. My other channels came in fine and had guide information.

I researched the issue and it seemed that I needed a CableCARD to get the guide information for the QAM channels. I called TW and they reluctantly agreed to give me a CableCARD. They didn't want to at first because I am not a digital customer, but they finally obliged. A tech came out to install the card and voila the missing guide information appeared. However, I now could ONLY receive the QAM channels. All of the other channels would not come in. TW then decided I needed a Tuning Adapter. Getting one of those was a chore also, but I finally got one. I hooked it up according to the instructions, the TiVo said it was "Acquiring Channel Information," and then nothing happened. The situation was exactly the same, but now I had an extra box hooked up to my TV.

TW sent out another tech who installed a different CableCARD. He didn't want to wait for the card to do its firmware update and kept rebooting the TiVo in the middle of it. He finally realized he couldn't get around the firmware update, so he waited for it. However, after all of the rebooting, the Tuning Adapter was now dead. It wouldn't power on anymore. No green light, blinking or otherwise. The channel and guide situation remains unchanged.

I'm now waiting on a second Tuning Adapter and a visit from a TW supervisor, who tells me that the CableCARD and the Tuning Adapter have to be installed and paired at the same time. He's supposed to come tomorrow.

Has anyone out there had an experience with this or a similar situation? Is what this supervisor says correct? Is the CableCARD/Tuning Adapter set up even what I need? After two tech visits, three trips to customer service counters, and about two dozen phone calls, I have learned to doubt what TW tells me, as they really don't seem to have any idea what they are doing with CableCARDs and Tuning Adapters. 90% of them try to blame the problem on TiVo and try to turn a tech support incident into a sales opportunity and try to get me to switch to a TW DVR. I've had TW DVRs in the past and TiVo is much preferable to me.

Can anyone help? I just want to be able to watch and have program guide information for all of the channels I am paying for, including QAM channels.

Thanks!

[Skaggs]

Welcome.

You have now experienced first hand the same issues those of us who have TiVos and TWC encountered when we attempted to get cable cards and then Tuning adapters.

However, your issue is a little different. You only want a cable card so you can get guide data on your QAM channels. I don't recall this coming up here at AlbanyHDTV before.

Here's a few other resources:
Why does my HD TiVo DVR need a CableCARD to display Clear QAM channels?

QAM mapping letter campaign (HD w/o cablecard)

Tivo HD doesn't find my clear QAM channels


Here are my thoughts:

You don't need a Tuning Adapter to get the QAM channels. TWC customer service is confused, as usual.

I don't believe you will be able to get the analog channels with a cable card. (I've been wrong plenty of times before)

I've had good luck dealing with Chris Kaling from TWC. He's an asst. tech supervisor and his phone number is 701-1409. I think he has a TiVo, so he is sympathetic to our needs.

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

[Chris Miller]

You don't need a Tuning Adapter for the QAM channels coming over the cable, but the TiVo isn't going to map the QAM channels that come in over the cable line.. That's why you need the CableCard.

Getting a CableCard introduced you to that little bundle of joy that we like to call the Cisco 1520 Tuning Adapter. Most of the non-local channels carried by TWC are on Switched Digital Channels (SDV). To get SDV channels, you need the tuning adapter. They are paired, but only because the tuning adapter is used by the TiVo to request channels for the CableCard. You can have a CableCard without a tuning adapter (for all 8 channels it will get), but not vice versa.

There are numerous points of failure with getting a tuning adapter working. You need a decent quality uplink signal level from your home back to the mothership. It's been my experience that the tuning adapters are twitchy if the signal strength level is not good enough. Also, they need to correctly enable the tuning adapter through their system after it has been installed in your home. If their records are not correct, they can enable the wrong device. That actually happened to me and TWC was good enough to call me and explain what had happened.

The good news is that these problems are are addressable by a TWC tech. They can measure the quality of the signal coming and going out. If you have any cable splitters in your house that are not CableCo quality, you could be degrading the signal quality enough to mess up the tuning adapter. The tech should be able to get the tuning adapter correctly authorized. The support rep that the tech will call will have the ability to remotely check the status of the tuning adapter as they authorize it.

I don't think the USB protocol that TiVo developed with Cable Labs was fully baked. When you plug in a tuning adapter into a TiVo, the TiVo should recognize it within a few seconds. It doesn't and can take a few minutes before it suddenly notices that you just violated it with a tuning adapter. Someone is playing attention and I don't know if it's the TiVo or the tuning adapter. I would tend to think the problem was with the tuning adapter on the general principle that it's usually the tuning adapter's fault, but I have nothing to back that up with.

The typical Time Warner response is to reboot the TiVo. This should work, a cold or warm booted TiVo will scan the USB bus and see the tuning adapter. The annoying bit with Time Warner is the only way they know how to reboot a TiVo is to pull the power cord out of it. While that is effective, it's not the best way to prolong the life the components of you TiVo. Rebooting the TiVo through the TiVo menu will accomplish the same thing, with the added bonus of you don't have to get off the couch.

I haven't had to reboot my tuning adapter for a few months now. When I first got the thing about a year ago, I would have to reset the box about once a month. I found that I just power cycled the tuning adapter with the USB cable to the TiVo disconnected was enough to reset it. I would plug the cable in and the TiVo would eventually see it. I have not had to do this for a few months now, that would suggest that it was an issue on the TWC side and they had resolved it.

As for the tuning adapter that stopped powering on, did you see if the tech pressed the power button on the front of the tuning adapter? Some of the firmware upgrades would reboot the tuning adapter and it would come up in a powered off state. Pressing the power button may have been all that it needed. There's nothing that the TiVo would have sent to it that would have toasted the tuning adapter. It's not like there was an Evil Bit that the TiVo could use to maim other devices. The other likely suspects was a bad tuning adapter or it toasted in a corrupted firmware download.

[callmejer]

Thanks to both of you for all of the information. This is quite helpful.

As for the dead Tuning Adapter, I thought it was pretty bizarre, also, that it just suddenly stopped working. I tried powering it back on with the power button and that did nothing. Unplugging it and plugging it back in again also did nothing. It really does seem to be dead. Maybe it was bad in the first place, who knows. TW never enabled the Tuning Adapter. There was nothing in the instructions indicating the need for this, and no one I have spoken to at TW (except for the supervisor who is coming out tonight) seems to be aware that this is a necessary step. They have checked the signal strength and said it was fine.

Hopefully the supervisor that comes out this evening can get things working. I also have a call in to Chris Kaling (waiting on a response) as a back up plan.

Thanks again for the info. I'm learning way more about these things than I ever wanted to! I will let you know how it turns out.

[hurnik]

I've had issues with the TA/Tivo communication via USB. Usually the symptom is that I cannot watch any of the HD SDV channels, but the non-HD SDV channels will work. Unplug the USB cable, wait long enough for the Tivo to see it's not there, plug it back and usually it'll work.

[callmejer]

Okay, we have something of a resolution.

First of all, the Tuning Adapter's power supply died, which explains its odd behavior. We took the TA out of the mix entirely, though, because the tech supervisor assured me none of the channels I should be receiving are Switched DV.

Using just the CableCARD without the TA, I can receive almost all of the channels I should be getting, but they are mapped differently now. For example, STYLE used to be 78, now it can only be found on its "virtual" channel 355. I had to go through and manually figure out which channels I receive and where they are, because the TiVo doesn't seem to allow a channel scan when using a CableCARD. So it took a little work, but I now have guide info for all of my channels!

Only problem is I'm still not receiving a couple of channels, namely TBS and Capital News 9. I've checked all the places they might be in the channel map, and they just don't seem to be coming in. I'll take this up with TW tomorrow.

So this is big progress.

[Skaggs]

What was the name of the Supervisor that came to your house?

[callmejer]

His name was A.J. He has been quite helpful, and is going to look into the remaining missing channels for me.

[callmejer]

I wanted to update this, because the solution to the missing channels was interesting and potentially useful for others.

A.J. figured out that my CableCARD, which was multistream, was somehow blocking those missing channels. He tried using two single-stream cards instead of the one multistream, and it worked like a charm! Now I am getting all of the channels I should be getting, and I am receiving guide information for everything.

[adam]

Just noticed, today only woot.com is selling the TiVo HD XL DVR (new) for $179 + $5 shipping. Obviously the subscription is sold separately.